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johnf



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject: Am I wrong for thinking this? Reply with quote

Playing NL 50c/$1 Blinds.
I raise with KK to $3...get one caller.
I have the button.
Flop comes Qh 4d 3h
He checks.
I bet about 2/3 of the pot to protect against flush draw over and pairing kicker.
He calls.
Turn Ac.
He checks.
I smell a trap so I check check, which maybe was a bad move.
river 3c.
He bets big into me, and I call.
He turns over AQ to beat my kings.

Now the problem that I have is and maybe I am seeing this wrong, but shouldn't he have bet me into me on the flop or at least check raised me?

I hadn't been playing a tight game, so I don't see how he could have put me on an over pair. I hate the call there and I couldn't put him on this had because of it. Thought he was drawing.

Anyway this set me on alittle bit of a tilt, and this is why I'm frusterated. Am I wrong for thinking this? Wouldn't everyone else raise here? or check raise?
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friscosardines



Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You smelt a rat, and he bet the Ace on the river, not the turn, however if you had trusted your sense of smell then all would have been well.....hindsight i know, so when he called you 300 raise what did you think he had? a pair? Ace picture or Ace rag or he just plain called. If you decided he called your raise holding an Ace then you play according to whether you see an Ace or not on any part of the flop, you saw it didnt want to and went against your instinct when you did!! that equals tilt!
you were unlucky cos with top pair Ace kicker and you on an over pair you were likely to take a lot of his chips, but he hit his ace, it was easier for you to get away from the hand at that point than for him if he hadnt hit his ace....thats poker. The best players (not me) can lay a hand down, and fight another battle another time...as for his bets he is trying to figure out how having hit his ace to maximise his return.....he has 2 pair confident you aint drawing based on your betting so why not let you catch up by checking, i would.
just my 2 cents....trust your sense of smell and at least think about the hand they had...and i dont think i am being clever to suggest he was likely to be holding an ace...
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norshvind



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 20
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was slow-playing you. Since you raised before the flop, it stands to reason that you would bet on the flop, even if you didn't improve. So he was assured of a bet to call, which is an excellent time to slow play.
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jhasper



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just trust your read. if you smelt a trap, lay it down. it doesnt matter if your holding 27 or KK, if your beat theres no point in putting 1 more chip in the pot.
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ballen



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flop, though tough to dismiss, possible set. On flop he had top pr, could call you bet easily, he had you at turn, but you didn't bet (as in your bet postflop let him pair his kicker, or overcard in this case). This is an easy check for him, can always bet later. Turn, no help, and he made his move.

Did you anything wrong, I don't think so. Could you have done some things better? Hindsight makes things easy.

You bet your PPk preflop, but only 3XBB, I think worth more...

You bet postflop with top pr, he called with top board pr. You wanted to bet to drive out draws. You lost on draw. Maybe you should have bet more.

Lastly, if you had AQ, and the other player had ppK, what would have you done? Exactly what they did. With top pr, and overcard, how would you have played your bets?
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chris



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was in his situation I would have lead on the flop or check raised to find our where I was. I definitely wouldn't just call. That is what I was asking.
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razor



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll be able to take adavantage of these mistakes by betting your draw.

In this hand, you should have thrown another bet out on the turn, or been done with the hand. Don't forget, he's still got to be scared of AA or QQ. But not if you don't bet the turn. Also, if you bet say 60% of the pot again on the turn, he may flat call again and try for the check raise on the river. You'll of course check behind. This is a much cheaper way to see a showdown than checking the turn and calling his big bet on the end.

The bottom line is, if you think you are beat, don't call. By not betting the turn, you put yourself in a tough spot on the river. Although checking the turn and check folding the river is a very vaible option, and in fact the best against most players.
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